Contractor insisting on cabinet hardware placement his way not ours..

6 år sedan

senast redigerad:6 år sedan

I have a contractor with a horrible attitude who had absolutely no patience today, when he wanted to install the mushroom knobs onto our upper & lower cabinet doors placed 'his way' 3 inches from the bottom of each of our upper cabinet doors, and 3 inches from the top of our lower cabinet doors.

I told him I prefer the knobs centered in/on the diagonal corner of each cabinet door. One knob at the bottom corner of each cabinet door for upper cabinets, and placed in the same way but at the top of the door on the lower cabinet doors. So then he basically told me in a very obnoxious & nasty way that I was wrong & ridicules for wanting knobs placed in that position and that no one else ever does it the way I want it. He said his way is the 'standard' way to do it and the way he 'always' does it. After saying all of that he threw down the knob he was holding in his hand rather hard, with enough impact to make a loud sound on the countertop. With no regard for damaging the knob or the countertop {which had only a thin piece of cardboard on it at the time}.

This contractor is planning on coming here tomorrow so I asked him to please hold off until tomorrow morning installing the knobs until my husband and I are sure about where We want to place them

I have been looking here on Houzz to verify if I am really 'wrong' for wanting the knob placement where I want it. Searching on Houzz seem to be finding a significantly higher percentage of photos with knobs placed the way I want them, & not nearly as many installed the way the contractor wants them. So this proves to me I am not crazy & my way is a very common placement of knobs on cabinets.

I think he is irritated because if he does it my way {on the corner} instead of his way {up 3"} , then he won't be able to use his easy peasy 3" template to mark where the hardware will go and that would be more work for him to measure & place them. He was rude, pushy & insulting toward me. The way I see it, the one who owns the house {me & my hubby} and the one who pays the contractor {me & my hubby} should get to chose where hardware is placed! We have to live with it not him!

Which way do you prefer?

This is how I want the knobs placed:

This is how our contractor wants them photo below:

Which do you prefer? Is there a right way & a wrong way? To me it looks like they are both acceptable, I see Pro Designers using both on Houzz. I am strong about which one I like, but am just curious what others opinions are also? ---Thanks!

Top Photo: My way with Knobs placed in the corners:

Bottom Photo: My contractors way with knobs placed 3" inches up from the bottom of down from the top.

Utvalt svar

miss lindsey (She/Her)

6 år sedan

Makes no difference what any of us wants. You're right, it can and should be done your way.

The person who helped me design my kitchen had the same philosophy as your contractor (although decidedly *not* the same attitude) while I wanted mine the way you want yours. We ended up doing it his way and I don't even notice it anymore but I still do like the other way better.

This is a stick to your guns moment I think.

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Kommentarer (51)

artsyphartsy_home_maker
Författare
6 år sedan
Ändrades senast: 6 år sedan
Thanks for the encouragement Lindsey, I will stick to my guns but I know he won't go down without a fight & I'm not looking forward to that. Our contractor is almost like a bully. Your so lucky your kitchen designer had a better attitude! He is trying to scare me into thinking I am wrong & that I would be making a mistake. I do think both of the ways are nice, but I have a leaning toward the knobs being in the corners, perhaps because when placed that way they don't interrupt the 'flow' of the rectangular wood 'frame' surrounding the glass as much.

My Hubby doesn't really care which placement I chose either way, he just wants me to be happy since I am the one who cooks, so he is supportive of me for whichever placement I like. I can't wait until this reno is over! Dealing with these contractors is so stressful, they try to control and change things to the way they want them. Today our contractor had me in tears and normally I don't cry over anything that is not a real matter of life & death, or health. My dog {a sweetheart} didn't know what to do but to lick my face he's is not used to seeing me upset like that.
gtcircus
6 år sedan
I went down this road and researched why its done that way. Your contractor is correct to place the knobs higher because at the corner it is the weakest spot on the cabinets. Most professional high end installations are the way your contractor wants to do it. After it was explained to me by the cabinet maker, the installer and my interior designer , I had mine installed as your contractor has recommended and I have a six figure kitchen which is being photo shot for a magazine. But you do what you want, just learn and understand why what you are contemplating may or may not be a good choice.
artsyphartsy_home_maker thanked gtcircus
gtcircus
6 år sedan
https://taylorcraftdoor.com/cabinet-door-hardware-placement-guidelines/
artsyphartsy_home_maker thanked gtcircus
Shasta
6 år sedan
We just had our knobs installed. They are installed just like our kitchen designer put them on the plan. You may want to consider this placement. It looks almost like a happy medium between yours and your contractor's ideas. Also, don't let him bully you into anything. You'll be looking at these knobs for many years to come. Best of luck!
artsyphartsy_home_maker thanked Shasta
Irene Morresey
6 år sedan
Who is paying, state your claim
artsyphartsy_home_maker thanked Irene Morresey
houssaon
6 år sedan
Ändrades senast: 6 år sedan
Ironically, I was thinking of placing the knobs on my kicthen cabinets near where you were thinking and my kitchen designer wanted them where your contractor wants to place them. I wasn't that set on my placement so I went went her advice. I'm glad I did.
artsyphartsy_home_maker thanked houssaon
Jennifer Hogan
6 år sedan
First, your contractor has demonstrated unacceptable behavior and either you or your husband need to calmly explain that raising of his voice, throwing things, treating you or your belongings with anything less than respect is not acceptable and it will not happen again in your home. If he disagrees with you he can calmly and professionally provide guidance, express his opinion and supportive reasoning.

Second, there may be an argument against placing the knobs in the corner, especially if the corner cuts are mitered. I would not want to place a knob where two pieces of wood are joined in a 45 degree angle, but many cabinets are made with 90 degree joints and I don't think that a corner placement would pose the same problem with this design, but guidelines are written without considering which type of construction.

I will say that if you have any lower cabinets that will need a center knob like the picture I am attaching, I would definitely want to place the knobs at the corners rather than have them lower on corner applications than center applications. The different heights would bother my OCD.
artsyphartsy_home_maker thanked Jennifer Hogan
champcamp
6 år sedan
The template should have nothing to do with it. He could easily make his own template (I have done so myself when installing pulls on cabinets where no pulls previously existed) or you can buy one. If he is acting like that I’m not sure I would let him install anything and do it myself after deducting the cost of the project from the final bill. There is nothing wrong with the way you want it. I prefer it that way as well.
artsyphartsy_home_maker thanked champcamp
PRO
JAN MOYER
6 år sedan
Unless some reason not to, I do as this: Aligned at intersections .......and if a pull, same thing for bottom of pull on uppers and top of pull on lower door. Note, I said unless some REASON.

I'd calmly ask his reason, and I'd also consider if he was having a very bad day for any reason. Everyone has family and a personal life..........
artsyphartsy_home_maker thanked JAN MOYER
PRO
Weil Friedman Architects
6 år sedan
The contractors that we work with usually want to put the knobs where you are suggesting, and we usually put them where Stacy has shown them. See example below. Depending on the width of the rail and the size of the knob, the intersection might look too tight.
artsyphartsy_home_maker thanked Weil Friedman Architects
PRO
Patricia Colwell Consulting
6 år sedan
IMO the statement about placement where there is a joint makes total sense to me and sorry but the client is not always right and I do not want to hear about how the joint failed down the road because I gave in to a clients wishes. Sometimes you just can’t have what you want. To be honest I agree with the comment that once they are all in it will honestly make no difference in a very short time.
artsyphartsy_home_maker thanked Patricia Colwell Consulting
PRO
GN Builders L.L.C
6 år sedan
Stacy has the perfect example. Installed 300+ kitchens and never installed or seen anyone install knobs at the location your contractor is proposing.

On the general note, like others said "you sign the check you choose where they go"
artsyphartsy_home_maker thanked GN Builders L.L.C
K Laurence
6 år sedan
Ändrades senast: 6 år sedan
Lol, never even thought about it, just looked at my kitchen cabinets and custom buffet built by two different cabinetmakers, both have placements exactly like Jan Moyer’s example. I really don’t care about such things though . He should install them in the manner you want, it’s your kitchen after all.
artsyphartsy_home_maker thanked K Laurence
User
6 år sedan
Ändrades senast: 6 år sedan
It ain’t about aesthetics. It’s structural. Drilling through the join creates a weakness. Especially if you have a mitered door. That’s straight through the spline of the join that already has issues separating in the weather induced expansion and contraction. You just guaranteed to have a bigger than usual gap there in the winter. If he destroys the spline/biscuit at a miter join? Failure.

If you are OK with no warranty on door separation, have him drill it through the join.

Take a refresher course down memory lane on your past approach to contractors to see the source of the attitude.
artsyphartsy_home_maker thanked User
Sebago Gal
6 år sedan
I would use painters tape on your cabinets where you want on some where he wants on others - then decide - I understand a contractor giving advise but in the end its your home and you are the customer.
artsyphartsy_home_maker thanked Sebago Gal
PRO
User
6 år sedan
Ändrades senast: 6 år sedan
Standard placement is a half inch to an inch or so away from the corner on a stick and cope. It’s stronger to not go through the join. For mitered doors, I won’t do mitered doors with paint to begin with, and would never do any mitered join with a knob in the middle.

Allpulls is much more Universal Design friendly. Knobs are hard for the very young and very old to deal with. I’d recommend reconsidering knobs entirely.

Even with pulls, you offset so as to not go through the join.

This customer chose to really offset some of the hardware, as a deliberate accent.
artsyphartsy_home_maker thanked User
PRO
GN Builders L.L.C
6 år sedan
95% of the time is 3" from the bottom and the center of the door stile.
artsyphartsy_home_maker thanked GN Builders L.L.C
Snaggy
6 år sedan
Ändrades senast: 6 år sedan
I would hide the knobs from him and do it myself! My builders asked me and they put them were I told them to
artsyphartsy_home_maker thanked Snaggy
PRO
Solar Texas
6 år sedan
Hopefully your contractor will have a better attitude next time. Throwing a little tantrum in front of the customer is not my idea of acceptable behavior. After a night’s rest, he might be in a better mood to explain his objections and reasoning rationally in an adult manner.
artsyphartsy_home_maker thanked Solar Texas
grapefruit1_ar
6 år sedan
I just checked our kitchen and bathrooms...done by different professionals...the knobs are all as your contractor suggested.
artsyphartsy_home_maker thanked grapefruit1_ar
M Miller
6 år sedan
Mine are as Jan Moyer pictured above. My contractor chose that placement and I was fine with it. But we had no prior arguments or”history” of disagreements (other than he and his crew being frequently late).
artsyphartsy_home_maker thanked M Miller
PRO
JAN MOYER
6 år sedan
Ändrades senast: 6 år sedan
All of this depends on knob size and style , size of stile/rail etc. I would suggest a deep breath, rarely is it wise to attempt the do it yourself program, template or not.

I had a contractor lose focus and he "bought" a new door for 350.00, my cabinet makers custom cost to re do the entire door as he is a perfectionist........and sadly on a brand new install to that $$$ level, so am I, and so too the client.
artsyphartsy_home_maker thanked JAN MOYER
Lyndee Lee
6 år sedan
any updates?
artsyphartsy_home_maker thanked Lyndee Lee
tooky58
6 år sedan
He owes you an apology and to put them where you want them. If he doesn't want to say "ok, I'm deducting the cost and finding someone willing do do what I, the client wants".
artsyphartsy_home_maker thanked tooky58
daisiesandbutterflies
6 år sedan
If it's a slab style door (without mitered joints), go with what you want. But if it's not slab style, there are likely going to be mitered joints right where you want to put the knob. If that's the case, you need to move the knob away from the mitered joint.
artsyphartsy_home_maker thanked daisiesandbutterflies
Mitzi Carpenter
6 år sedan
Remind him YOU'RE paying HIM for what YOU want. If he cops an attitude over door knobs, I'd hate to see what he'd do with something bigger. And you can always replace the contractor. Remind him of that. And I do like your way better.
artsyphartsy_home_maker thanked Mitzi Carpenter
PRO
JAN MOYER
6 år sedan
Ändrades senast: 6 år sedan
If he had/has a sound structural reason for the placement, explains it calmly, and you choose to ignore it ? I'd make you sign away the rights to guaranteed door integrity, smile broadly and...... drill away.

If he's just a tightly wound control freak, and there IS no logical reason? Ask him politely to drill and move on, or deduct the cost of a good handy man to do it for you. The end.
artsyphartsy_home_maker thanked JAN MOYER
Maria Privat
6 år sedan
Well, I live in Europe. I've never even seen it here the way he wants it. All our kitchens are the way You want it. And I've also never ever seen any cabinet door broken or damaged because of our placing it that way.

He is doing it Your way or not at all. How dare he behave the way he did?! Do not tolerate it for a second. Stand your ground and stand it firmly.
artsyphartsy_home_maker thanked Maria Privat
PRO
Anthony Perez
6 år sedan
I prefer your way, but in any case your contractor works for you and he/she should follow your preference regardless. If possible I would fire him/her

Way to many times contractors think they know it all and forget that their role is to execute your and the Designer/Architect vision, one thing is to recommend and or advise on mechanical or structural matters for your safety and another one is to dictate details and or Design, color, etc.
artsyphartsy_home_maker thanked Anthony Perez
gtcircus
6 år sedan
Ändrades senast: 6 år sedan
Remodels fray nerves on both sides, yes the contractor should be professional and it was a mistake to get aggravated. But its now time to sit down and discuss the issues like adults on both sides and if after hearing the reasons OP wants it in the corner then that is where it should go. A simple apology and refocus on the problem at hand should get this projects back on track. Digging in your heels and counting up grievances isn’t going to benefit anyone. As my father always said being dead right doesnt really get you anywhere, you are still dead. You can be right all day long with this contractor and have an unfinished kitchen.
artsyphartsy_home_maker thanked gtcircus
miss lindsey (She/Her)
6 år sedan
Why in the world would the OP apologize for the contractor's bad behaviour? Or did you mean the contractor should apologize?
artsyphartsy_home_maker thanked miss lindsey (She/Her)
User
6 år sedan
The OP has a history of being less than professional or realistic with contractors. It’s amazing that this one lasted this long.
flopsycat1
6 år sedan
I searched Shaker cabinets and found either placement acceptable. Overall, both look fine, kind of a non-issue. If you want to make placement simple, use finger pulls.
artsyphartsy_home_maker thanked flopsycat1
cpaul1
6 år sedan
Although I understand what people are saying about drilling through a mitered corner, it has never been my experience that that caused any problems (with weakness or otherwise). I would say it mostly depends on the size and style of the hardware in terms of where it makes sense to put it. And then beyond that, it is your choice. And I agree that at the end of the day, it really doesn't matter that much.
artsyphartsy_home_maker thanked cpaul1
Belahn
6 år sedan
I would just put them on myself and deduct from what you pay him. He obviously doesn't want to do it, so why should he get paid? This is such an easy thing to do it's not even funny. I've done knobs and pulls on kitchen and bathroom cabinets that didn't have any in about 6 or 7 of my houses.
artsyphartsy_home_maker thanked Belahn
Kris Mays
6 år sedan
Ändrades senast: 6 år sedan
I would do them myself, too. It is easy to make a template.

So, there is no right way, unless you are referring to what the paying customer wants. THAT is the right way.

The right way is the way you want it to be. Your contractor has obviously not grasped the customer service end of his job.
artsyphartsy_home_maker thanked Kris Mays
PRO
FOI Designs
6 år sedan
We have 2 machines in our shop that can cut out templates for such applications. If your contractor refuses to install your hardware in the locations that you wish just let me know and we will cut and ship you the templates absolutely free of charge. No joke, will ship them by Monday. We have personally dealt with other trades on home sites that share the attitude of your contractor, very sad.
artsyphartsy_home_maker thanked FOI Designs
marylut
6 år sedan
My kitchen shaker cabs have knobs 3” up and 7/8” over. Placement was not an issue for the smooth panel cabs on the bookcases.
artsyphartsy_home_maker thanked marylut
PRO
JAN MOYER
6 år sedan
Trim size matters, knob size matters. I can't believe this thread continues. IF he had a sound reason for placement ? One can listen , agree, disagree, and a handyman with an accurate template and good drill and bits can have all of them on in two hours.

He had a bad day...whatever. Maybe his wife is having an affair, maybe he was diagnosed with something serious. She hasn't psoted a photo of HER knob, nor HER cabinet. Cut the guy some slack, or have at it and put them where you like them deduct the time and MOVE ON: )
saranelson2100
6 år sedan
Pulls! Knobs are not looking great.
artsyphartsy_home_maker
Författare
6 år sedan
Ändrades senast: 6 år sedan
Thank you so much for your very varied opinions! I'm sorry I haven't been on Houzz to follow up on the thread sooner. I have been so busy with reno 'Chaos' & life in general. *Sorry, my comment is a little long this time, I have a lot to catch you up on.

Our project manager hadn't been doing his job of over seeing & controlling the reno. From day one he was barely involved which allowed the contractor have free reign attempting to walk all over me, cut corners and do a generally sloppy job.

After reading the comments here, I see there are some things I need to clarify. NO the corners are not 'Mitered' which should help dissipate some confusion. They are Kraftmaid painted white shaker wood with the smaller border around the doors, they also make one with wider border but we didn't like those as much. My idea of 'mitered' is when a corner is joined on the diagonal, please correct me if I am wrong about this. Our doors have a straight vertical cut where they are joined, not an angled diagonal one. The place where I want to put the knobs is not on a 'seam' :

One of our cabinets before it was installed:

One of our Top Knobs mushroom knobs on the display board at the store:

I'm happy to say that since I last posted here, the contractor/carpenter have since been removed from our reno job along with the project manager!! Removed by the higher management of the company we hired. Yay --we are so relieved and happy to have that negative energy out of our house! The project manager had usually been a 'no show, no call, no return call, no email' throughout the entire process with little contact, and wasn't 'managing' anything, least of all his contractor/carpenter run amuck.

Management came to our house and asked us what had been going on. My husband and I were happy to finally be asked and be able to describe the many negative interactions. Management was also able to take a look at the mess the contractor made a mess of our backsplash which was obvious to see. We had white subway in a brick pattern installed. He installed some tiles popping way out, some sunken way in and the whole thing wavy with bulges and recesses involving groups of tile. It looked horrible.

The manager said he was very, sorry and immediately pulled both the contractor/carpenter and project manager from our job. And then told us he will instead be sending his 'best people' to complete the reno and rip out and redo the backsplash. He profusely apologized for what had been going on and told us none of this should have been happening.We are beyond happy and feel almost like we had an exorcism at our house lol! The negative feeling of the reno had been palpable and now the negative dark cloud has been dissolved. It had been disturbing being disrespected in our own house. Now we will have civility and peace again.

When the project manager isn't doing his job overseeing the reno, that forces the homeowner to have way more interactions with the people doing the work then they should be having. The homeowner shouldn't have to tell the contractor/carpenter that cup pulls are installed crooked, the project manager should be doing that. This puts the homeowner in a very awkward position to have to directly address the people doing the work about any issues, or problems. Our feelings are good riddance, don't let the door hit ya' on the way out! Thankfully in comparison, our new project manager seems like he fell right out of heaven! Finally we are catching a break!

Oh --I didn't get back to the subject of door pulls {mushroom knobs}. Now that they will be taking the time and redoing the backsplash over again, we now have a bit more time to decide where we want the knobs. We will be sure to ask the new carpenters opinion about the structural integrity of putting them in that spot on the corners. I make it a point to listen to opinions & advice as long as it is given respectfully, and treat other with respect. Unfortunately some people interpret politeness and a calm demeanor as weakness and they try to take advantage of that and bully. I'm have no doubt that was part of what was going on with the old contractor.

P.S. --thank you to the person who offered to send me a template to install hardware myself, I appreciate the offer. However I think the new carpenter will be installing them when the time comes & hopefully it will be a more pleasant experience this time!
Irene Morresey
6 år sedan
Well I'm glad things turned out ok in the end after enduring some bullying and unprofessional conduct.
artsyphartsy_home_maker thanked Irene Morresey
artsyphartsy_home_maker
Författare
6 år sedan
Ändrades senast: 6 år sedan
.

Sophie Wheeler you said: "The OP has a history of being less than professional or realistic with contractors. It’s amazing that this one lasted this long."

I surely hope you weren't referring to me Sophie Wheeler, because if you were you would be dead wrong. My husband and I have never hired a contractor before or had a renovation done, this is our very first time. We are reno 'virgins' so to speak. So this 'history' you speak of doesn't exist. Perhaps you have me confused with someone else.

Have a nice day!
saratogaswizzlestick
6 år sedan
I am so glad that you now have a team you can work with. Best of luck in your new place.
artsyphartsy_home_maker thanked saratogaswizzlestick
User
6 år sedan
Ändrades senast: 6 år sedan
3 years of running off contractors on the front end before they ever got s deposit counts as past poor interactions with contractors.
artsyphartsy_home_maker
Författare
6 år sedan
Ändrades senast: 6 år sedan
.

Sophie Wheeler,

I have heard many other people here on Houzz tell their own stories of having similar difficulties very much like we have had with finding a reputable & reliable contractor who wants work. I know because those people discussed it with me, and identified with me in another thread. What I can gather from what you have already said, to you someone who cant find a contractor must be "less than professional or realistic" . So most likely, according to your standards it is also anyone else's fault as well if they can't or couldn't find one, judging them in the same way as your judging us. For you to say we have been "running them off" is ridicules. Where is your proof of what you said? Where are your facts??? Don't bother answering, I don't have a care to hear it.

It seems you must be very interested in me to be studying & stalking my old past posts, which is quite disturbing to me & very CREEPY. I came here looking for 'help' with a poll & opinions about 'Cabinet Pull Placement' . There is an old saying "Past behavior is the best predictor of future behavior". Your previous comments don't seem to be made with any intention at all whatsoever of being 'helpful'. Since you haven't had anything 'helpful' to say before, I prefer you don't comment anymore on my thread in the future please because I expect it won't be helpful to me, thank you.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

ANYONE INTERESTED HEARING OUR QUEST FOR CONTRACTOR, READ ON. IF NOT PLEASE DISREGAURD, AS I KNOW THIS IS LONGGGGGGGGG.

here is a brief synopsis of our past search for a contractor: Let me begin by saying that in the beginning as newbies to the world of contrators and reno ,there was a point at first where my husband and I were bewildered and confused by why contractors sometimes don't return potential customers initial phone call or send an estimate after saying they will do so. But after reading up on Houzz as well as talking to friends, We have since discovered that it is a very common thing indeed for contractors not to call people back, much of the reasons having to do with not enough time or not making enough $$$$ on a potential job. That being said here is a brief description of our own experience.

Several contractorsdidn't give a call back even before we ever spoke to them at all, or ever metwith them at all, some were no shows to initial first appointments before we
ever met them or spoke to them aside from giving them our name, number and address.
And a couple of others gave broken promises to send an estimate after visiting
with us. Two contractors wanted to do the work with out any permits, and asked
for cash and of course we said no. The funniest one actually showed up on the
wrong day for our appointment which was a red flag so we never considered
him. We found out one potential contractor had stolen thousands and thousands of dollars from a client& not done the work so of course that one was crossed off the list.

If my memory serves me I'd say we probably tried contacting about 5 or 6 contractors total over the past couple of years give or take a couple. Whenever we did have the

chance to actually meet with a contractor in person we only asked the potential contractors normal run of the mill questions anyone doing a kitchen would ask. We looked for contractors somewhere in between when my husband was busy having
prostate cancer & prostate removal surgery...... which you could say slowed us down a bit....] I also might add that there were several contractors along the way that would have taken our job but we decided against. Some of which I 've described above.
Liz Lemon
6 år sedan
Artsy, don't worry, if you'd mentioned initially that this was your first time hiring a contractor you likely would have been attacked for being naive or not vetting people properly. Some people seem to gain a deep sense of satisfaction from making ridiculous assumptions and barking out baseless and usually useless "advice." Has anyone yelled at your to hire an architect? That seems to be a fave of the crotchety (and clearly bored) locals
artsyphartsy_home_maker thanked Liz Lemon
artsyphartsy_home_maker
Författare
6 år sedan
.

Thanks Samantha,

Thank you for your supportive & informative helpful commentary,

is very much appreciated!
Paul Marks
6 år sedan
Ändrades senast: 6 år sedan
I'm probably addressing this too late to have my opinion matter, but the Contractor's personality aside, I agree with him: Largely for aesthetic reasons.

I make the choice, in part, based on the apparent function of the knob or pull. For example, wide drawers need two pulls because they give the appearance of pulling a heavy object - one doesn't feel sufficient, even if nothing is in there but tea towels.

Drilling through the intersection of the rail and stile makes the joint look weak - visually, I think of pulling on the knob applying pressure to both pieces and gives the appearance of stressing the joint, even if well built. Also, drilling the hole in the middle of the joint makes it look like it has been weakened, even if it is sufficiently strong for its function.

Now, having said that, a couple of hours ago, I came from a kitchen I'm building, where I was pondering where the knobs and pulls should go. Putting the knob at the intersection just didn't feel right. Moving it up a couple of inches fixed my "problem."

I later looked at photos of a kitchen I designed and built 15 years ago to confirm my feelings about where the holes should be drilled. Surprisingly, I found I had placed the knobs exactly in the intersection of the rail and stile - although it never bothered me living, with it for 15 years, suddenly the knobs seemed to be in an awkward place.

Maybe it's that I've done a lot of woodworking in the interim, but for some reason my gut tells me the knob belongs up the stile a couple of inches on small doors, and higher if the door is tall. If I had doors above shoulder height, I would definitely put the knob at the intersection - visually, those should be where they look easy to reach. For lower cabinets, I tend to go higher where the pull seems within easy reach.

In the end, however, the contractor has an anger management problem. His job is to please the customer. My last contractor had the attitude that his job was to give me a quality house, whereas I thought his job was to do things my way when they didn't affect structural integrity, or greatly increase the difficulty of construction. He stomped off one day - the rest of the crew told me they didn't want him back, as he created too many arguments with everyone, not just me, so I didn't make amends to get the job done. If the joint was likely to fail doing it your way, I could understand his resistance to doing it, but otherwise it's personal taste - the 1/8th inch hole for the screw isn't likely to affect the joints integrity [although it may make him feel it could].
artsyphartsy_home_maker thanked Paul Marks
artsyphartsy_home_maker
Författare
6 år sedan
Ändrades senast: 6 år sedan
.

Paul Marks,

Thanks so much for your thoughtful comment & advice! And also thanks to all of you who kindly gave me advice. Paul, you may be shocked to find this out but your advice does not come "too late". We had a change in management of our reno job and also a change of who was doing the actual installation work. They were all taken off of our job and replaced by much more professional people. Due to that there has been a considerable hiatus in time and delay to the continuation of the reno, we were 'in limbo'.

I now have a Project manager I can actually talk to who answers every question, replies to emails & phone calls, & has a good attitude, and best of all he actually 'manages' the job! The new carpenter is much better to deal with and does a thoughtful carful job with everything he touches. He has been busy 'fixing' & 'redoing' the mess that the old one left our kitchen in. He was just here today working on it. Today he marked the cabinets where we want the knobs to go after asking me and discussing it in a civil friendly manner. We came to the conclusion that placing the knobs here {see photo below was the look we liked the most {we don't have any 'miters' to worry about,, but since we're no longer placing them in that spot it's a non issue now about miter or no miter.} Here is the

Photo below: of where Knobs will go: I'd love to hear any opinion about where we plan to place the knobs which are to be installed tomorrow!

I think this placement is a nice 'compromise' in between where I originally wanted it to be 'centered in the corner', to where the first installer wanted it 'at '3" in. from the bottom of the door' {I think that was the measurement he wanted if I'm recalling correctly} I do know he wanted to place it quite high up on all of the upper doors, and low on the lower doors. Our drawers have cup pulls which are installed already, the first guy installed them crooked so the new carpenter will be reinstalling them correctly, turns out the first one had also installed most of the drawer fronts crooked which we could see by eye. When I put a level on them there was even more proof.

Photo below: one drawer higher than the other, one end tilts up.

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Photo below: Filler on top left is hanging too low:

Side filler several inches too long and the first installers were insisting to leave it that way. We had to fight to get them to fix the obvious problem of the side filler hanging down low over the range and not being at an even level with the rest of the upper cabinets. They finally fixed the problem after much stress and crying { was the one doing the crying}! Couldn't even fit a stock pot under there, and it was a fire hazard! not to mention just completely WRONG!

Today moved the fridge back in to our kitchen, and after long 6 mos. of it being in our livingroom, I have to get used to it being where it's supposed to be again! Kitchen still has a way to go yet before it will be completed though. They will also be redoing our batched backsplash tile {was not on yet at the time this photo was taken}.